having already started a thread about jw actions that irritated us the issue has to be completed by discussing what we did or can do to irritate them.
i would say wearing a cross would vex or even frighten them since they think it's a satanic symbol.
or drawing a cross on a kh with chalk and writing above it : jesus christ lord of the church.
Tell them that the bibles says they will be report of wars and one is not to worry about end of times if they are depending on Jehovah! They are speaking doctrine versus bible to do their research!
I think they irritates us! What irritates US? D@m end of times crap! Is that going to be your next topic,sorry.
i was just reading something about the story in genesis about the angels leaving heaven to mate with earthly women.
does anyone else find it peculiar that the watchtower places no blame on the women?
in the wt world, it is always the less powerful who bears the primary burden of guilt except in this one case.. for example, didn't someone post a wt form which asks an applicant about pedophile practices and then asks if the child did anything to provoke the assault?
I think that angels never took women for wives! it is a false teaching. The JW believes the concept because of Russell, and because they borrowed everything from other religions. They quoted from the book of Enoch because you will not find a story like it in the bible. Compare the story of Enoch with Genesis.
6: 1 Now it came about that when men started to grow in numbers on the surface of the ground and daughters were born to them, 2 then the sons of the [true] God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking; and they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose. These were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
Men of renown were of Cains offsprings because they were an older group of men who made tools, tents, instruments, and took many wives, were renown for violences. .
Enoch
VI-XI. The Fall of the Angels: the Demoralisation of Mankind: the Intercession of the Angels on behalf of Mankind. The Dooms pronounced by God on the Angels: the Messianic Kingdom (a Noah fragment).
1. And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. 2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' 3. And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' 4. And they all answered
I do not believe in the book of Enoch as nothing more than a fables. Some day maybe they will discover the real book of Enoch mentioned in Jude.
As far as angels in Gensis 6:1 they were men. All men on the earth were sons of the true God!
the scripture saying: "...one day is with the lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
" (2. peter 3:8) is often used both by jehovah's witnesses and others, to show that a day can literally mean a thousand years in the eyes of god.
this is then used especially for the creation story, and for the fall of adam and eve.
When I just read that scripture as-is, it simply tells me that God is 'outside of time'; time does not apply to him.
That is right! I realized that the JW does not speak about the creation of day and night verses time. Prior to the creation of luminaries there was no time just a division of day for light and darkness for night. Although, God says day one, day two, and day three, time did not happen until day four; signs, season, day, and years.
So why would the WTBTS teach the purpose of day and night but not teach time! The only reason I could come up with is a big word eternity. Prior to time (Genesis 1:14)Jesus was with God and that would be eternity because there was no time just day(light) and night(darkness). They are wanting to debunk that God and Jesus was not eternally together prior to time.
Can anyone tell me if the WTBTS teaches God and created Jesus was eternal prior to time? Eternal meaning with out time.
Back to your topic, yes a day can mean a thousand years and I like your findings about when Adam died less than a thousand years! How many years did he live outside of the garden? How long did it really take before Adam had life put in him and he walked? The Paradise Lost book has Adam created in the garden but the bible has him created on the outside of the garden.
Do you think one hour means something? The fall of Babylon the Great!
first off let me apologize for the long post, but i really needed to talk about this.
ive been coming to this site for over a year now.
though i dont post much, i really enjoy the banter here and also enjoy reading about the events in your lives.
Welcome! I was raised as a JDUB believe that it was God's organization and even when I was dfd it was the truth. Now that I am reinstated which by the way was very hard to go through, I know it was nothing but one big sham! (big empty space in my heart) To think that we thought we were Gods choosen earthly organization!
Pray to God and once you pray your sins are forgiven. Do not put yourself through the guilt of growing pains!
Every time I read someones growing pains, I think about a story in the Old Testiment where these guys were going by the road side and they pick up a hooker! Or at least they thought she was a hooker!
You should be happy that you do not have to deal with the religion anymore! Trust me it will get better unless you get rapped up in the WTBTS guilt!
to accept the existence of god?
(i'm not talking about "a big man in the sky" kind of deity.
) what would it take to convince you that mankind was intentionally created by a powerful and intelligent creative force?
The Bible is good enough proof for me! I have read other sources and they do not compare to the Bible.
Thanks for asking.
i was just curious... it seems that everyone comes to this site at age 17 or older.
i first looked at this site at age 16 if i recall correctly.
and i've never seen a 15 year old or younger here.. is there anyone here younger than that?
Do you think it is safer for young people to not state their ages?
has anyone read it "jehovah is a lover of justice " page 26 paragraph 16 & 18 please read it .
what rubbish .
16. Indeed, the "new heavens," God's heavenly government in the hands of Christ, has been set in place
already.
Goes against Revelation 20. ...set in place already! What a joke. They seemed to have a habit of telling God when the NEW HEAVENS IS SET IN PLACE with their numbers.
LOL sometimes it too much!
sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but i'm at work and don't have time to search...i'm having a discussion (argument) with my jw hubby about the location of the great crowd.
we've looked at rev.
4 through 7 and he agrees with me that everything is in heaven "before the throne" until we get to the great crowd... does anyone have any easy-to-understand comments on this subject?
Revelaton 19 also speaks about Jesus the ones dressed in white robes coming after him so I can see how you might feel that the 144,000 are going to kill people.
14 Also, the armies that were in heaven were following him on white horses, and they were clothed in white, clean, fine linen.
sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but i'm at work and don't have time to search...i'm having a discussion (argument) with my jw hubby about the location of the great crowd.
we've looked at rev.
4 through 7 and he agrees with me that everything is in heaven "before the throne" until we get to the great crowd... does anyone have any easy-to-understand comments on this subject?
I had to take to think about this one.
Luke 12:32 I believe that little flock is the disciples see Luke 12:22 He said to his disciples.
Luke 12:41 Peter said, Lord are you telling this parable for us or for everyone? Well that is a good questions and has been debated for years!
That for you to figure out on your was own. But he did put Peter in charge of all his possessions and in Acts its proven!
John 10:16 he was speaking to the disciples and the great crowd (multitude) later.
I believe the 144,000 are taken from the earth in Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
As far as the 144,000 woman being angry and going to come a destroy anyone. I realize that was an example but there is no proof that they are given that kind of roll. I remember when the WTBTS use to say that the 144,000 were to take the place of the fallen angels and were to become angels. No proof! Maybe spirit form but who says they are going to take the place of the fallen angels. Just bull! Lets see spirit bodies equals angels equals 144,000.
It appears from the authority of Jesus that angels are the ones who will be given the plagues not the 144,000.
Where is the little flock if they are the disciples they will be given thrones to judge Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones..."
There is no where mentioned how many thrones and once again the Jehovah Witnesses has been saying that these are the 144,000 just like they are to give us meat at due season. But it is mentioned that the disciple were going to be given thrones by Jesus, so I will say it the disciples. Just smoke there is no proof! it is like a bad tic tac toe game.
In my view point it is the disciples because when Christ was on earth he said they would be given thrones.
Have you ever considered Ezekiel prophesy? do you think that this is just spriritual? I do not think so. I believe there is going to be a flock Ez 34:33-34. and if you read that temple it does not fit any of the temple. So for now, I am going to say that the Iseralites have been forgiven and were promised lots of land and the PRINCE who will come to this earthly future temple.
Also, Revelation 3:12 " Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out; and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." That was written to one of the churches so maybe some back then overcame.
You mentioned Rev 19:1 I am still not too sure about this scripture know could it be voices going up to heaven or they are in heaven? One of my bibles say multitude one says people so who knows.
In Hebrew 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Zion and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem and to an innumerabe company of angels. 23 and to the assembly of the first born who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righeous made perfect and to Jesus the mediator or a new covenant..." KG
Hebrew 11;15
11 "By faith also Sarah herself received power to conceive seed, even when she was past the age limit, since she esteemed him faithful who had promised. 12 Hence also from one [man], and him as good as dead, there were born [children] just as the stars of heaven for multitude and as the sands that are by the seaside, innumerable. "Oxford
13 In faith all these died, although they did not get the [fulfillment of the] promises, but they saw them afar off and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land.
14 For those who say such things give evidence that they are earnestly seeking a place of their own. 15 And yet, if they had indeed kept remembering that [place] from which they had gone forth, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they are reaching out for a better [place], that is, one belonging to heaven. Hence God is not ashamed of them, to be called upon as their God, for he has made a city ready for them. NWT How can the dead reach out for a better place? WE WERE TOLD AS JW THAT THE O.T. PEOPLE WOULD NOT BE GOING TO HEAVEN BECAUSE THEY DID NOT HAVE THAT HOPE!
I hope that the flock will be a great big flock with two branches Gentiles and Jewish. all go up to worship. and as far as Reve 21:3 See the throne of God is among mortals. He will dwell with them as their God they will be his peoples and God himself will be with them. Rev 21:10 And in the spirit he carried me away to a great, high mountain and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down ouf to heave from God. to where? People will bring inot it the glory and the honor of the nations but nothing unclean will enter into it. I beleive Revelation 22 goes with Ezekiel 47.
since the society has told the elders that they are basically on their own, why don't we give more thought to suing the elders-----not just the watchtower society?.
when i was an elder ii was very concerned that i might get sued and be liable in a lawsuit.
it was one of the reasons i didn't want to be an elder..
defamation/slander/libel well that you would need to be kind of famous.
Anyhow, you still need to prove harm, What harm was done?
did you lose you leg? health? emotional problems? what was the harm?
You want to sue, what do you get? Money so how is a judge going to say how much harm was done without proof?
defamation and slander are you a star did someone write something the a local paper about YOU? NO
What is the harm? Kicked out the kingdom hall and how did you suffer? Lose of family, big deal it is a personal choice.
Go to the doctor prove that you did not have symptoms until after the facts.
